Meat Ice creams

[donnad.livejournal.com]

There has been a lot of discussion going on over at this post. I was going to respond over there but figured it would just get lost in the shuffle.

I would like to try to clarify what I believe is Anns's complaint about meat ice creams. Ann correct me if I am wrong here.

Disclaimer: I am an omnivore, I eat meat. I do not like chicken liver at all therefore the thought of a chicken liver ice cream is a major squick for me. I have allergies to many other foods, many of them were made into ice creams this year, I actually had a run-in (so to speak) with one of those foods this year(mango if anyone is curious.)
I do not keep kosher.

So here is my take on this.

Say you have a table with several buckets of ice cream and one scoop and a bucket of rinse water.
First person, takes a scoop of the chicken liver ice cream, puts the scoop in the water, the water is now contaminated with chicken liver ice cream melt. Next person takes the scoop and scoops into the mango ice cream and puts the scoop back in the water. Mango ice cream is now contaminated with chicken liver water. Water is now contaminated with chicken liver and mango. Next one comes along, scoops into the chocolate ice cream, scoop goes back in the water, chocolate ice cream is now contaminated with the chicken liver and the mango. Water is now contaminated with chicken liver, mango and chocolate.

I come along, and I want vanilla. I take the scoop and proceed to contaminate the vanilla with chicken liver, mango and chocolate. Well, I am personally allergic to mango. I actually can't have the vanilla I want without having to deal with the contamination from the water of chicken liver, chocolate and mango melt. Thus I can't even have vanilla unless I use my own personal scoop, which BTW would be contaminated by anything else I may have dipped into prior to coming to the vanilla, thus contaminating the vaniila for someone else.

I think this is the issue at hand. How do we deal with stopping the cross contamination of dairy to non-dairy and meat to dairy/non-dairy?

Personally I think the meat ice creams are an interesting experiment and I don't want to discourage experimentation but... The situation could be easily remedied by a separation of them to a small table by themselves with their own scoops.

I think a separation of flavors based on type is a really a good idea for future Baitcons. The sorbets get a table, non-dairy/soy or coconut based on one table, the *hot* ice creams (like habanero) on another, the regular ice creams on one, and the meat on yet another. It would help to avoid cross contamination of dairy into meat, dairy into soy and other non-dairy flavors.



Now as for the other issue she raised. I too think that the person walking around with the torn t-shirt barely covering his privates was out of place, especially with so many young kids around. Call me a prude, but IMO, in the house area one should be a bit more modest. If it had been a speedo swim suit, it would have been fine. Or down at the stream, I wouldn't have blinked twice. But in the main common areas, where anyone could have driven in off the street he should have had a bit more modesty. I can only imagine what the owners of the property would have said/done had they decided to visit our little gathering and seen him.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Ok, hint taken. I will wear more next year.

[wotw]

One problem with a separate table is that it's nice to
find a wide variety on a single table so you don't have
to run around and spend time working your way through
multiple crowds. I might want to try the chicken liver,
but I'm unlikely to be happy with *only* meats.

[vvalkyri.livejournal.com]

Hm. Sections on a table? Add a masking tape spacer? Or little tray tables in a "here's the separate section"?

BTW, completely off topic but whilst I'm responding to you: Mexoryl Sunscreen (http://www.google.com/search?q=mexoryl&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official)

[gingicat]

I have to admit that honestly, I would be more worried about your mango allergy than my meat-milk separation issues. But that's me.

[thespian.livejournal.com]

I do not like chicken liver at all therefore the thought of a chicken liver ice cream is a major squick for me.

I used to like liver until I found out what it does in the body. :-P

Now, I cannot eat it without my conscious mind rejecting the idea of eating any organ that serves that sort of purpose...I throw up. In all honesty, had I made it to Baitcon, I would have not eaten any ice cream where there could have been chicken liver, in order to avoid foisting that on anyone else. :-)

[(Anonymous)]

re: modesty, is there actually a rule about where one can/should be naked or not? If so, I missed it...

(And I walked naked to the portapotty at least once)

[catya.livejournal.com]

oops, didn't mean to do that anonymously.

[perspicuity.livejournal.com]

scoop or scoops on a rope for each flavor attached in some fashion to the bucket. if necessary, its own warm bucket of water for cleaning/warming also attached. perhaps only needed for weird flavors, but not much more work.

it would be necessary to remind people to not otherwise contaminate a given weird flavor and/or anything else with the weird flavor. that should pretty much do it.

#

[donnad.livejournal.com]

I don't think there is an actual *rule* about nakedness around the house. but I believe it is generally assumed that when you are just hanging around the house where anyone could drive in off the street (and we have had random strangers show up accidentally in the past) that there is some semblence of modesty. One quick walk to the port-a-potty or stripping to prep for a massage then lying covered on a massage table or even stripping to change clothing in general, isn't quite the same as hanging around barely clothed for several hours or all day.

And like Ann originally said, dancing naked in the rain is an exception.

Nakedness down at the stream is generally accepted/expected and if one does not want to be exposed to it, one doesn't go to the stream. But having one exposed to it at the main gathering area for most of the day isn't really fair to those who don't particularly care to see it.

Make sense?

[catya.livejournal.com]

It makes sense, but I'm not sure it's actually said anyplace. And it isn't what I assumed. (this was my first baitcon, contrary to popular belief :)

[keith-m043.livejournal.com]

I think the original rule was "thou shalt not squick the BaitMom" and it was thought that nekkid people would do that. The rain and stream exceptions was because she never went to the stream or went out when it was pouring down rain (funny thing that second one). The gradual relaxation of said rule I'm guessing took place because a lot of people came in never even hearing of the rule and the ones that did know it have raised the threashold of what they estimate would squick BaitMom.

[blk]

My suggestion: Everybody must submit one (1) ice cream scoop with their BC application/deposit next year. No contamination.

[vvalkyri.livejournal.com]

82 scoops is a bit much but separate scoops for certain flavour classes could certainly help. In the other thread I played with the idea of matching coloured duct tape on scoops and tubs for the meat...

One would need to define weird, but there could be grouping to lessen the # of scoops. If attendees were to keep an eye out in the thrift shops during the year we'd probably be able to bring one heck of a lot of more scoops.

Re defining weird, though, there are a lot of different things that different people will consider contaminant...

[istemi.livejournal.com]

Sections on a table? Add a masking tape spacer? Or little tray tables in a "here's the separate section"?

I don't see that lasting through the first few minutes of pushing and grabbing.

[fraterrisus]

i think that's a perfectly fine rule to decide on ("thou shalt not squick the BaitMom"). however:

1. if that's a rule it ought to be published somewhere on the web site;

2. a slightly better definition of what does and does not squick the BaitMom might be appropriate, since "she's Bait's mother" is not sufficient to tell me what will and will not squick her.

i say this mostly because it's a rule that i'd hate to run afoul of. shoot me for being a relative newcomer to BC (this was my 2nd), but "don't piss off the organizers" is a prime convention-attending rule in my book :)

[vvalkyri.livejournal.com]

Tray tables, then. Might not be very stable, though.

Or those tables that people sometimes set up in their tents? Seem to be small and portable.

Or the lower suggestion of separate scoops for certain flavors.

Or the other lower suggestion of everybody bringing a scoop to Baitcon, at which point there are 150 available :) At which point we tape a long string to the scoop and to its tub.

[keith-m043.livejournal.com]

we didn't actually serve all 82 flavours at once. We might get by with 20-30 scoops. Are scoops that expensive?

[perspicuity.livejournal.com]

colored tape would probably not work in the dark... string/rope would...

perhaps glow sticks taped to the scoops and containers ;) rope easier.

another thing that would help in a LINE - buffet style rules, both sides of the table along the long side - things would flow i expect. the mob rule thing works not so well for the small and not pushy... i was balancing patience vs pushy with a bias towards pushy later on as people would magically slide in front of me whilst about to grab a scoop or flavor.

#

[istemi.livejournal.com]

Those are some good ideas. They don't rely on people paying attention.

Or everyone with dietary concerns or who gets tired of fighting to get a scoop, any scoop, bring their own and wipe it between flavors.

[quietann.livejournal.com]

It was formerly on the website, but seems to have disappeared. Hopefully a BCC member can tell us why. (I suspect it was because MomBait turned out to not be so squicked by naked folks dancing in the rain, in 2002 and 2003.)

The strange thing is, back in 1997, my very first baitcon, I got soooo worried about whether one particular instance of nudity on my part would get me kicked out. This was when baitcon was still at Big Indian. There was a long, steep, driveway that curved once before the house perched at the top of a small hillock. A then-boyfriend and I got very sweaty doing, um, interesting things in his tent, and gave each other naked solar showers on the lower part of the driveway, below the curve but in full view of the house. Luckily, if anyone noticed, no one seemed to care....

[tamidon.livejournal.com]

about the nekkid people. since so many people are invoking"for the children's sake", I thought I'ld speak up. Personally I've never had a problem with my kids seeing nekkid people around, and it's been pretty clear to me that Baitcon has always been pretty laid back about nudity. All of a sudden getting upset because we have more kids around isn't really fair. All I've ever asked in the 10 years I've been bringing kids to baitcon is that people not engage in sexual behavior around the kids.How did this crowd get so prudish lately?

[istemi.livejournal.com]

Buffet style was tried at Big Indian. It took forever to get through, and there wasn't much left by the time the last third of the line got served.

the mob rule thing works not so well for the small and not pushy
I was concerned about how the kids fared in the mob.

If only we could start off with the nasty sugar-and-fat-rush feeling. Was anyone in doubt that they'd get enough ice cream after the first round?

[forgotten-aria.livejournal.com]

As much as I would agree with the ideal and sympathize with the problem, I don't think that given the confusion, the number of people involved, and the problems with labeling that most of the ideas suggested aren't terribly practicle and infact if people *though* they might be safe from exposure to an allergy because of a plan which was stated, but badly implemented that might be more dangerous.

I'm not saying there should be a change in this department, but the confusion causes a lot of things to happen, including people who aren't willing to fight an push often not getting to try many flavors, labels being lost, direct contamination because of the water just not being used at all in the heat of the rush. I think that very little can be done for cross contamination in that confusion.

Even dinner, which is a much more orderly process, people tend to be sloppy with utensils.

[weegoddess.livejournal.com]

the mob rule thing works not so well for the small and not pushy...

Yup. Hence my sometimes-noted 'assertiveness' (if I gotta be small I gotta be quick). I did my best not to be rude or push ahead of anyone, but it wasn't easy.

I do agree that separate tables, such as the "savory/meat" table, the "hot" table, etc. would work. If folks are upset about the mob-mentality, then lines should be enforced. We did lines for meals and no one seemed to complain.

[forgotten-aria.livejournal.com]

It's not a question of enough for me. It's a question of getting to try all the new experiences, especially the ones that I missed because people thought they were wonderful and took lots.

If I wanted a specific volume of ice cream, I'd buy some from the store and go hide in a corner.