Meat Ice creams

[donnad.livejournal.com]

There has been a lot of discussion going on over at this post. I was going to respond over there but figured it would just get lost in the shuffle.

I would like to try to clarify what I believe is Anns's complaint about meat ice creams. Ann correct me if I am wrong here.

Disclaimer: I am an omnivore, I eat meat. I do not like chicken liver at all therefore the thought of a chicken liver ice cream is a major squick for me. I have allergies to many other foods, many of them were made into ice creams this year, I actually had a run-in (so to speak) with one of those foods this year(mango if anyone is curious.)
I do not keep kosher.

So here is my take on this.

Say you have a table with several buckets of ice cream and one scoop and a bucket of rinse water.
First person, takes a scoop of the chicken liver ice cream, puts the scoop in the water, the water is now contaminated with chicken liver ice cream melt. Next person takes the scoop and scoops into the mango ice cream and puts the scoop back in the water. Mango ice cream is now contaminated with chicken liver water. Water is now contaminated with chicken liver and mango. Next one comes along, scoops into the chocolate ice cream, scoop goes back in the water, chocolate ice cream is now contaminated with the chicken liver and the mango. Water is now contaminated with chicken liver, mango and chocolate.

I come along, and I want vanilla. I take the scoop and proceed to contaminate the vanilla with chicken liver, mango and chocolate. Well, I am personally allergic to mango. I actually can't have the vanilla I want without having to deal with the contamination from the water of chicken liver, chocolate and mango melt. Thus I can't even have vanilla unless I use my own personal scoop, which BTW would be contaminated by anything else I may have dipped into prior to coming to the vanilla, thus contaminating the vaniila for someone else.

I think this is the issue at hand. How do we deal with stopping the cross contamination of dairy to non-dairy and meat to dairy/non-dairy?

Personally I think the meat ice creams are an interesting experiment and I don't want to discourage experimentation but... The situation could be easily remedied by a separation of them to a small table by themselves with their own scoops.

I think a separation of flavors based on type is a really a good idea for future Baitcons. The sorbets get a table, non-dairy/soy or coconut based on one table, the *hot* ice creams (like habanero) on another, the regular ice creams on one, and the meat on yet another. It would help to avoid cross contamination of dairy into meat, dairy into soy and other non-dairy flavors.



Now as for the other issue she raised. I too think that the person walking around with the torn t-shirt barely covering his privates was out of place, especially with so many young kids around. Call me a prude, but IMO, in the house area one should be a bit more modest. If it had been a speedo swim suit, it would have been fine. Or down at the stream, I wouldn't have blinked twice. But in the main common areas, where anyone could have driven in off the street he should have had a bit more modesty. I can only imagine what the owners of the property would have said/done had they decided to visit our little gathering and seen him.

Comments

[catya.livejournal.com]

oops, didn't mean to do that anonymously.

[donnad.livejournal.com]

I don't think there is an actual *rule* about nakedness around the house. but I believe it is generally assumed that when you are just hanging around the house where anyone could drive in off the street (and we have had random strangers show up accidentally in the past) that there is some semblence of modesty. One quick walk to the port-a-potty or stripping to prep for a massage then lying covered on a massage table or even stripping to change clothing in general, isn't quite the same as hanging around barely clothed for several hours or all day.

And like Ann originally said, dancing naked in the rain is an exception.

Nakedness down at the stream is generally accepted/expected and if one does not want to be exposed to it, one doesn't go to the stream. But having one exposed to it at the main gathering area for most of the day isn't really fair to those who don't particularly care to see it.

Make sense?

[catya.livejournal.com]

It makes sense, but I'm not sure it's actually said anyplace. And it isn't what I assumed. (this was my first baitcon, contrary to popular belief :)

[whuffle.livejournal.com]

You will notice that many people come prepared with saris/sarongs to use. This allows you to be comfortable and not have to wear too much. But you can also be modest around those who would just rather not have to see everything on display.
Saris/sarongs are easy to find at import shops and street fairs. And if your problem is finding one in your "size" you can also go and buy fabric to make it to suit you. (I did this this year because I was tired of the sarongs being too long for my short legs and finding myself wanting to have 2 of them so I could occassionally cover my shoulders when it was buggy. So I made a sari with a buttonhole and button to use as a skirt and the extra length of a traditional sari so I could cover my shoulders.)

[(Anonymous)]

*shrug*? I'm not personally worried about it one way or the other, i'm just commenting that "no nudity or close to nudity by the house" wasn't what i assumed.

[cutieperson]

it wasn't what i'd assumed either, based on descriptions of past years.

[sunspiral.livejournal.com]

And I always thought that a good rule was if you don't like what you see, don't look.

[quietann.livejournal.com]

As people have already pointed out, especially at Mink Hollow, it's entirely likely that random outsiders will wander in during the event (especially when there's a good live band). At that point, especially when there are a lot of little kids around, nudity creates all kinds of potential problems for everyone. And there would definitely be problems if the site owners (who are conservative Christians) come in to see how things are going.

[mycroft.livejournal.com]

It's worth pointing out that this is new. Sarongs were not widely used in the past. The first Baitcon I went to (1993), there was in fact a woman hanging out naked in the house for quite a while. (Can't remember who it was.)

[vvalkyri.livejournal.com]

Oh! I had no idea. So this is specific to Mink Hollow? Good to know.

[hammercock.livejournal.com]

The landlady, especially, is kinda psycho. When Baitcon was held in Big Indian, it was in the private vacation home of lyonesse's family, as opposed to the rental property (Mink Hollow Lodge) it's been in for the last 6 times. Lyonesse has no real issues with nudity that I know of. :)

[fixx.livejournal.com]

I think part of the problem has more to do with individual experience. A lot of people in our crowd are entirely used to attending "clothing optional" events and for them the relaxed atmosphere suggests this is ok.

I am not made the least bit uncomfortable seeing men or women of any age size or shape completely unclothed, and infact I'm more uncomfortable myself being unclothed around others unless the context of the situation permits it, such as hot tubs or at the creek, although this would be a good time to mention it was my impression from the baitcon website that nudity at the creek might not be acceptable due to site privacy issues.

So your first baitcon was 1993? I think my first one must have been 1995 because I recall driving Nancy (button lady) there in the van I bought that year. Your recollection supports my impression of seeing several topless women outdoors within close proximity of the house there.

With these rented sites I can see why it might be necessary to designate select areas "clothing optional" or rather certain other areas as "NOT clothing optional". Anywhere in front of the house visible from the road for example.

This year I heard talk suggesting that totally nude people sitting on community furniture squicked others... I can understand that. I don't however assume that extends to toplessness, and I think it would be good to separate these two issues.

[mycroft.livejournal.com]

This year I heard talk suggesting that totally nude people sitting on community furniture squicked others...

As I've said elsewhere, it's normal in naturist/nudist communities to carry a towel or something to sit on if you're going to go around nude. I think that's a perfectly reasonable policy.

[keith-m043.livejournal.com]

I think the original rule was "thou shalt not squick the BaitMom" and it was thought that nekkid people would do that. The rain and stream exceptions was because she never went to the stream or went out when it was pouring down rain (funny thing that second one). The gradual relaxation of said rule I'm guessing took place because a lot of people came in never even hearing of the rule and the ones that did know it have raised the threashold of what they estimate would squick BaitMom.

[fraterrisus]

i think that's a perfectly fine rule to decide on ("thou shalt not squick the BaitMom"). however:

1. if that's a rule it ought to be published somewhere on the web site;

2. a slightly better definition of what does and does not squick the BaitMom might be appropriate, since "she's Bait's mother" is not sufficient to tell me what will and will not squick her.

i say this mostly because it's a rule that i'd hate to run afoul of. shoot me for being a relative newcomer to BC (this was my 2nd), but "don't piss off the organizers" is a prime convention-attending rule in my book :)

[quietann.livejournal.com]

It was formerly on the website, but seems to have disappeared. Hopefully a BCC member can tell us why. (I suspect it was because MomBait turned out to not be so squicked by naked folks dancing in the rain, in 2002 and 2003.)

The strange thing is, back in 1997, my very first baitcon, I got soooo worried about whether one particular instance of nudity on my part would get me kicked out. This was when baitcon was still at Big Indian. There was a long, steep, driveway that curved once before the house perched at the top of a small hillock. A then-boyfriend and I got very sweaty doing, um, interesting things in his tent, and gave each other naked solar showers on the lower part of the driveway, below the curve but in full view of the house. Luckily, if anyone noticed, no one seemed to care....

[larksdream]

Luckily, if anyone noticed, no one seemed to care....

That makes me glad. It's much nicer when people are, well, nice.

[(Anonymous)]

indeed, what he said. *nods*

[catya.livejournal.com]

but really i meant to say that as me and not anon. sheesh.

[keith-m043.livejournal.com]

Well when JB first pronounced the rule (and come to think of it it sounded more like a heartfelt request), the crowd was smaller, and everyone took it as, don't do anything in sight of the house that you wouldn't do in front of your own parents, but I think the issue of nudity was the specific topic that caused him to make that request.