Ice Cream

[mycroft.livejournal.com]

There are a few things I would humbly suggest about the ice cream making process:

1) Use a different labeling mechanism. The clipped on index cards were too prone to falling off. It's also not clear to me that some of the containers were ever labeled in the first place. It's a little more expensive, but Sharpie on colored gaff tape would be a lot more robust. [See addendum.]

2) Have a full ingredient list. One idea I had for this is to use a rolodex. When the ice cream is mixed, it gets numbered, and a rolodex cards gets filled out with the ingredient list. [See addendum.] People can flip through this at their leisure. When the ice cream is served, the card is pulled out and affixed to it at the serving table (or perhaps affixed to the table). Anything without a number doesn't get frozen.

3) What ever happened to the ethereals? Have they been tried with LN2? ISTR they were popular back in the day.

4) Pack some dry ice in the freezer(s) to get things cold. This will require some careful planning so the ice cream isn't too hard at serving time, but it should be workable.

I'm willing to implement any or all or the above.


Addendum:

1) There have been various suggestions of how to affix labels better. Phil's idea (the billboard covering material), in particular, is worth following up on.

2) After some discussion, I think I'm leaning toward putting the ingredient lists in a binder instead. The pages can be taken out and pasted to the tables before serving begins. Again, anything without a number/list doesn't get frozen or served.

3) If someone sends me the recipe(s), I'll try out ethereals and consider reviving them next year.

Also, a point I mentioned in a comment: I suggest doing away with the large buckets, and instead splitting the popular flavors and serving them at multiple tables. I think this would reduce congestion at least a little.

Comments

[mycroft.livejournal.com]

Actually, the numbering scheme, combined with writing the mixing time on the card, could replace the whiteboard completely.

[jbsegal.livejournal.com]

Having a master list that everyone can look at and boggle at is a Good Thing(tm). :)

[mycroft.livejournal.com]

I was referring to the whiteboard -- which was used to schedule the freezing -- not the big pink chart.

[kimberlogic.livejournal.com]

I've begun to agree about the index cards, though trying a few types of tape thus far has shown that the moisture that collects on the outside of the buckets does keep the tape from sticking well. Don't know if gaff has been tried ...

The rolodex idea (well, similar though not a rolodex) was tried one year with limited success. That said, various discussions will happen during the year about new ideas and I'll bring up your suggestions.

Ethereals ... Drex wasn't up to doing them this year and no one else did any. Some years, it's like that.

[vvalkyri.livejournal.com]

Ethereals?

[keith-m043.livejournal.com]

Ethereal grape was created at BaitCon 2 (3?) when someone was trying to make a sherbert (sorbet?) but was missing one of the ingredients (corn syrup I think). The result was grape flavoured substance that would melt like dry snow/cotton candy when you put it in your mouth.

[jbsegal.livejournal.com]

Sherbets that have corn syrup in the recipes, made without the corn syrup. They're the frozen equivalent of cotton candy, and they just don't work without churning.

It was an accidental discovery many years ago.

[vvalkyri.livejournal.com]

Sounds very neat.

JB, I've been holding off on posting to baitcon until I've finally got pictures up and available, but I do want to say how wonderful this past weekend was. I think it was Maugorn, Patches, and maybe even JRJ who decided I'd fit with the group, and I'm very glad they did.

I've been active in these recent threads, partly because it's provided an escape from other things I should be doing. You all do an AMAZING job putting together this weekend, and the planning and organization makes for an incredibly smooth event.

These things people have brought up are interesting to discuss solutions for, but at least for me it's in terms of "how can we make a great thing even better?" rather than "oh woe is me, this is horrid and must be fixed."

[jbsegal.livejournal.com]

Yeah, gaff was tried. It kinda works, but not really. The bucket needs to be clean and dry before the tape goes on, and when it gets wet, it's prone to coming off... but it's not an unmanagable failure mode, maybe.

At least the fact that it comes off easy makes clean-up better than if it stuck and wouldn't release. :/

[deguspice.livejournal.com]

Yeah, gaff was tried. It kinda works, but not really. The bucket needs to be clean and dry before the tape goes on, and when it gets wet, it's prone to coming off... but it's not an unmanagable failure mode, maybe.

How about putting tape on the buckets before Baitcon starts (or at least before they're used)?

Also, instead of using rolodex, how about a loose leaf binder with 8.5x11" plastic sleeves? Then the folks who prepare ice creams at home, can print out (or write) their ingredient lists (or recipes) at home. Also larger pages are easier to read, and allow for more information to be included (story of why the flavor was inspired?).

[totient]

I have a roll end (that is, a 4 inch wide by ~1000 foot long roll trimmed off a much wider roll) of the plasticized sticker material they use for billboards. It stands up to water, takes ink well, and doesn't disintegrate upon removal (though on many surfaces, it does leave a residue). Will experiment with applying to wet/sweating surfaces and let you know how it goes. The manufacturer (whose name escapes me at the moment, but I'll look it up tonight) is local to Boston and generally willing to give out roll ends for free if you ask.

flexcon busmark

[totient]

The sites I've seen advertising it seem to think it comes in 50-yard rolls, though the roll end I have must be longer than that -- I've used 20 yards of it, and it seems hardly smaller than when I started.

[gingicat]

I know where I can get heavy-duty rubber bands that will fit around the buckets, maybe those could be used to hold the cards on? I could also take the time beforehand to put a stripe down the middle of each one so the rubber band could go over the stripe and not obscure the text.

[totient]

Or you could get some wide rubber band material (or vetwrap!) and write on that.

[perspicuity.livejournal.com]

idea:

robust rubber-like-band substances holding on a band of tyvex (sp). can be written on willy nilly with a sharpy, is essentially completely waterproof, and won't slip to boot (well, shouldn't). if not rubber bands, perhaps velcro - but that increases the level of complexity.

when the recipe is made, going with the index card idea, a tyvex sheet could also be made at the same time, and ready to go, with index number.

the containers can be stored with just the tyvex label, and a copy of the index number affixed UNDER the lid (food safety) for backup.

hopefully it won't get to welding and zip ties :)

#

[gingicat]

The problem seems to be (from what I remember and from people's comments this year) a lack of light to read the labels. Someone offered to bring battery-powered lights for the tables, and that seems an ideal solution. If I can make it next year, I'll try to bring lights as well.

[mycroft.livejournal.com]

No, there were multiple problems this year.

[feste-sylvain.livejournal.com]

Labels: Flavor title, presumably a mnemonic hint to contents. Must be brief and easy to read in twilight.

Ingredient List: Entire cast of characters in the recipe, even down to whether it's dairy or not. Probably does not fulfill the requirements of "Labels" above.

Categories: like musical genres, this is of appealing but dubious use. Keeping sorbets, ices, gratines and other dairy-free items in one category appears useful, right up until somebody watches Iron Chef and gets inspired to make a prawn sorbet, triggering the kosher and allergic folks. Likewise, some can eat cooked fruits but not fresh fruits, etc. By the time every category which is important to an attendee has been identified, we run the risk of having as many categories as flavors. Still, there may be some use in the concept. But it is no substitute for providing the recipes for general perusal.

[mycroft.livejournal.com]

I really don't think classification is feasible. There are simply too many potential sensitivities. The only way to deal with that is to have everything labeled with the ingredients. Of course, we can't guarantee these are accurate either -- it's really up to the people mixing the flavors.

[keith-m043.livejournal.com]

Perhaps part of the ice cream making team should be a secretary to record ingredients as they go in.
The resulting information could be put into a format that could be sucked into peoples' palms an hour or so before showtime and then they could make decisions as to what to eat or not. Part of the palm information could be permanent bucket numbers so that mistaken identity is less likely.

Yes I know not everyone has palms but the above could be part of a multipronged attack on the problem, or at least make the problem of making everyone else informed a little easier.

[larksdream]

Xeroxed sheets would probably work fine.

[mycroft.livejournal.com]

Frankly, I'd like to discourage people from playing with their Palms. It's supposed to be a social event. Also, as you say, not that many people have them.

This is why I suggested a rolodex. It presents the information in a way that people can browse, but also helps prevent the cards from walking off, getting dropped under a table, etc.

[keith-m043.livejournal.com]

To my mind there is a difference between using a palm as a tool and using it as a way of being antisocial. I imagine there were a fair number of people besides that ones I saw using a palm that mostly kept them in their pockets. I think a rolodex would make a good prong to go along with a palm list but having a hundred or so people using one rolodex would prove to be unwieldy taken by itself.

[perspicuity.livejournal.com]

the last thing i want is having an icecream covered sticky pda and/or having someone jostle into me or otherwise me being clutzy and dropping it, especially INTO a icecream vat - talk about allergies.

#

[fixx.livejournal.com]

Playing with a gameboy might be antisocial. Listening to an MP3 player may even be more antisocial, but nearly every time I pulled out my Palm it was to make a note of who I'd met or more often to record their Live Journal address if they were so kind to give it to me. That certainly isn't anti-social, rather the opposite.

I think looking up the ingredients of ice creams so you don't vomit (or worse) during a weekend camping event in a relatively remote location (probably a distance from area hospitals) is not nearly as antisocial as the increased risk of illness and the inconvience it might cause to others.

[jbsegal.livejournal.com]

1) Use a different labeling mechanism. The clipped on index cards were too prone to falling off. It's also not clear to me that some of the containers were ever labeled in the first place. It's a little more expensive, but Sharpie on colored gaff tape would be a lot more robust.

I suspect the unlabled containers were done with gaff that failed, though I can't prove it.

Binder clips and cards works just fine on larger buckets, but the yougurt/soup quarts have their own lids and are thus harder to clip to.

[tamidon.livejournal.com]

For catering we used to use wax pencils on plastic containers. Could that work? Maybe wax on freezer labels?

[koshmom.livejournal.com]

How about thinking outside the box, or "outside the bucket" as related to Baitcon. Use ziplok style freezer bags to store the ice cream instead of buckets.

To fill, you freeze like normal, then put a bag inside a bucket, and fill it (using the bucket for support). When filled, zip closed, write on the bag, and use a second bag if the serving is too much for one bag. Or write on the bag ahead of time.

It doesn't matter if they get all gummed up, the ice cream will be gone anyhow. Just toss them: no huge washing of buckets after servings. When serving, put them in a bowl or large tray for support.

Yes, they'll break. but it's not like they'll be storing ice cream for months, or even weeks. You just need to store it overnight.

If the ice cream inside is too hard, you can split the bag down the side and scoop from the center (put that bag in a large pan to keep the mess down). If the ice cream is too soft, either freeze it more or cut one corner and squeeeeze it out. leftovers can be placed into another bag for refreezing for the next serving, or then put into a smaller sized bucket like container for the next batch.

Testing will have to be done to see if the plastic is strong enough to withstand the freezing process, obviously. But with the bags you wouldn't have the "frozen on the outside, soft inside" problem, you can feel the frozenness of the ice cream before you put it out so it gets pre-checked before serving to see if it's usable.

And it's simple to write on the outside of the bags with a magic marker.

Another approach to attaching those rolodex or index cards

[fixx.livejournal.com]

It would not be necessary to connect the label with the container at all at serving time if the label is connected to the location the ice cream is served. I can imagine two ways of doing this, but each one requires some engineering in advance.

Instead of putting containers of various sizes on a table, the containers, at least the smaller quart size ones, could be placed in troughs, not unlike the plastic window boxes that hardware stores sell. Then instead of attaching the labels, cards or whatever from the trough, itself, the cards would get clothespinned to a wire bale that is attached to the trough where it would get more light and be easier to read. I can see how the bale could get knocked off in a feeding frenzy but hopefully a more orderly serving system would be initiated at the same time.

An alternative to the bale would be to place the trough near some other surface where the flavor cards (and ingredients) could be posted in the same sequence nearby and clearly visible from the trough location. These signs could be supported off of a table, building, even a wire strung overhead between two conveniently placed trees.

More elegant but less practical versions of this could involve longer trough designs or even boards with holes cut out to hold the ice cream containers in their sequential locations.

Re: Another approach to attaching those rolodex or index cards

[mycroft.livejournal.com]

It would not be necessary to connect the label with the container at all at serving time if the label is connected to the location the ice cream is served.

That's true. The information could be posted in advance if we know which serving station it's going to.

The trough idea probably isn't going to work, though, for a couple of reasons. The big one is that having all the containers packed together is highly suboptimal -- they need to be spread out on the table to allow parallel access.

Re: Another approach to attaching those rolodex or index cards

[dragonsea]

How about something like a 1x12 with holes cut in to act like collars? Ice cream container goes in hole. Flavor name/description goes next to it- for instance an index card inside a ziplock bag (readable and changeable yet protected and secured). 1 flavor per 18" allows spacing. Might even allow for more leverage when chipping out sampled of rock-hard ice creams.

Re: Another approach to attaching those rolodex or index cards

[fixx.livejournal.com]

[pardon me, I accidentally posted this anonymously, now corrected and very slightly edited]

highly suboptimal -- they need to be spread out on the table to allow parallel access.

I would agree, *if* the playing field were even, but it isn't. What you refer to as parallel access results in less agressive people getting squeezed out. With a trough approach, two people could scoop "in parallel" one on either side if the trough were supported up the center by some means I can only imagine at this time.

The reason I suggested the "longer trough designs or even boards with holes cut out" was to suggest a lower density in turn providing greater access for what you call "parallel access". That becomes less significant if there are enough trough locations, and as cheap as these plastic window boxes can be, we could easily afford to have only three or four flavors in each one, instead of the five or six they could hold and still benefit from the layout for labeling. Re turtleduck's spacing suggestion, three flavors in each (typically) 3' trough would be about one flavor for every 18".

I'm not suggesting this is the perfect solution. I'm merely suggesting that attempting to place ANY sort of label down low and attached to the ice cream itself is effectively suboptimal, if only because there is rarely enough light to read it by, and the related risk the label could come off.

While I'm on this subject the solution I suggested elsewhere for dispensing small amounts of ice cream to each person could be solved by use of a coring tool not unlike this one: http://www.kitchengadgetsonline.co.uk/contents/media/C20502.jpg, although a clean way of pushing the core out would still need to be devised unless there is a corer with integral pusher.

Re: Another approach to attaching those rolodex or index cards

[mycroft.livejournal.com]

To a certain extent, I agree that the feeding frenzy isn't what I would prefer. However, given the sheer volume of flavors, and the fact that the ice cream already melts fairly quickly, I'm not sure slowing it down would be beneficial overall.

In the Old Days, when there were many fewer flavors and fewer attendees, ISTR they were all lined up on a single table and it was a much more polite affair.

Adding another serving session on Saturday afternoon would probably help. I know this has been bandied about. We need to solve the freezer problem for that to be possible, though.

I'd also suggest doing away with large buckets completely. Any flavor that's popular enough to warrant a large batch should almost certainly be split and served at multiple tables instead.

Re: Another approach to attaching those rolodex or index cards

[mycroft.livejournal.com]

The ideal device for pulling out small portions is probably a melon baller. However, it's not clear to me that apportioning this way would work -- I suspect people would just use their own spoons, which is much worse from a contamination POV. (Some people already do this because they're impatient.)

Re: Another approach to attaching those rolodex or index cards

[vvalkyri.livejournal.com]

Hm, I'd been commenting elsewhere about melon/butter ballers, but that's a good point - people get impatient. Other problem is I'm not sure whether it's particularly easy to get stuff /out/ of a melon baller :)

What about a bunch of us hit the thrift shops looking for decently strong tea/tablespoons at a dime to a quarter each*, and as things go out to be served a couple of the spoons get jabbed into the flavor. Flavors that are too hard frozen might get a spade instead.

I also thought koshmom's idea of ziplocks was interesting in terms of decreased cleanup.


* my father's avocation is thriftshopping; if I give him a goal he'll find it, even if that's asking for 30 melon ballers across a year

Re: Another approach to attaching those rolodex or index cards

[fixx.livejournal.com]

It is possible you have had more favorable experiences using mellon ballers to serve ice cream. I've tried using self-tipping mellon ballers previous to this discussion and despite the similar design, it did not seem to work the same way.

I've recently drawn up a design for an easy to fabricate out of off the shelf components, self-limiting, self-dispensing ice cream serving tool that will cost "us" almost nothing (in other words I think I can provide enough for an entire Baitcon without putting myself in hock)

By "Self-limiting", I mean that though not precise, it will max out a bit over 1 tsp if forced
By "Self-dispensing", I mean it should eject ice cream with a minimum of surface for adhesion so it probably will not require a second implement to separate ice cream from it.

I intend to build one and test it before I submit my design here. If I do so photos will be provided. Estimated cost per each is under 50cents. They should be machine washable and rustproof. On the downside this design will not penetrate rock hard ice dream, nor can I see a way around that other than patience or use of other implements.

Althought I intend to put at least 5 minutes into building the first one, my estimated fabrication time per each in quantity (such as the first 50 or so) is closer to 1 minute. Assuming this works, how many would you like to see?

Regarding the use of personal spoons and contamination. Personal spoons were used a couple of ways. More than a few people used them to scoop directly, many more used their spoons to separate the ice cream from the scoops. I was using a compartmentalized bowl I'd brought which also made it easier to knock the ice cream off the scoop. Sadly I had people offering to help me with THEIR SPOONS because they got so impatient waiting for me to turn over the scoop to them.

PS: Baitcon is now a week ago and my stomach still has not quited down, fortunately I bought the bulk sized Imodium.

[koshmom.livejournal.com]

Since things stick to clean, dry containers, why not pre-stick one half of a velcro strip to the container. Then you can write on the other half, and velcro it to the container. If you want a larger writing area,
use velcro with double stick on both backs, and stick a card/whatever to the outside velcro.

[kkpixie.livejournal.com]

I'm willing to implement any or all or the above.


*sends love*

[athereal.livejournal.com]

I had pretty good success with keeping my label on... I had some athletic tape (the white tape athletes use to tape toes and such) and I rolled it around the bucket/card so that it overlapped itself. It stuck pretty well to the bucket and very well to itself, which seemed to work pretty well.

[concrete.livejournal.com]

I'd love to see the label on both sides of the containers!

We kept spinning the buckets, I kept thinking about stripping my clothes off...

[vvalkyri.livejournal.com]

I very much like the idea of splitting popular flavors between tables or servings.

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's best for them to go out at the same time, to multiple tables. Otherwise I expect the frenzy to be just as bad.