non-dairy flavors

[cos]

solestria, who doesn't eat dairy, told me she wished all the sorbets were placed together on one table.

Later, separately, I heard surrealestate telling about how someone had taken a scoop full of a dairy ice cream and put it into a sorbet container. I asked what she thought of the idea of putting sorbets on a separate table, and she said it'd be great if all the non-dairy flavors had their own table.

wotw chimed in to say that he thinks only sorbets should be allowed because they're much better than ice cream, but having a separate non-dairy table would be better than nothing :)

So, I'm posting to see what other people think of this. Has it been considered before?

Comments

[melebeth]

Although I didn't make it this year, I think this would be a brilliant plan. It would make things a lot easier for those of us who have trouble with dairy for one reason or another.

[weegoddess.livejournal.com]

Word. ;-)

[wotw]

I think I've been slightly misquoted here. It's true that I personally
would be happier with 200 sorbets rather than 75 sorbets and 125 ice
creams (or whatever the ratio currently is). But given the ratio, I
actually prefer to have the sorbets scattered around. This way I end up
tasting a few ice creams, some of which (Maple Bacon Toffee! Schockokirsch! (sp?) ) are fantastic. If there were an all-sorbet table,
I'd probably miss out on these.

[pekmez.livejournal.com]

I like the idea, though I personally would be trying to hit the sorbet table *and* the ice cream tables. Sorting that way seems to help avoid scoop contamination and would be no worse for people who can eat both than having one awesome must-track-that-down flavor on each of the 4 tables already is. =)

[starphire.livejournal.com]

This. The way the running of the flavors is set up, and as frenzied as it gets, the potential for scoop contamination alone is reason enough to have the non-dairy iced confections on separate tables.

Also, the runs on Sunday, with one of the tables under the other shelter - would have been even better on Saturday, when there are so many more people crowding into that one area. It seems clear to me that there are currently too many people on Saturday night to have everyone crowding around 4 tables under that one shelter. Even if the tables weren't there, it would still be hard for that many people to move around each other.

[surrealestate.livejournal.com]

My understanding was that it (the 3-1 setup) had in fact been planned in theory for Saturday, but in the frenzy of setting up, was forgotten.

[kimberlogic.livejournal.com]

It has been (and is being considered).
That said, if there is feedback about things to do for the con, it is best directed to us via email - very few of the crew are on LJ :)

[cos]

*nod* I wanted to see what various attendees think of the idea, though.

[kimberlogic.livejournal.com]

I can tell you that a LOT of attendees have suggested this - and that we do a separate table for savory flavors. I'm all for both ideas - I think that having a non-dairy table, savory table and perhaps even a chocolates table (since there are some folks allergic or who don't like those) would be a great change. corwin & seph are less convinced ... so hey, let's build even more consensus for change!

[motive-nuance.livejournal.com]

That would be great for me. They're all I can eat, and they were hard to find. Also, many people seemed to have negative interest in them.

[queen-of-wands.livejournal.com]

I am new to the mysteries of Baitcon, but I was actually surprised to learn the sorbets weren't already on their own separate table, since the rest of the food all weekend is so carefully sorted and labeled to accommodate allergies and intolerances (a situation I found truly wonderful).

[surrealestate.livejournal.com]

For the record, I think dropping a scoop that is full of one flavor into another flavor is bad behavior irrespective of the dairy-ness. There are a lot of strong flavors that can easily contaminate a more subtle mix.

(The particular incident I witnessed happened because the adult in question didn't want to wait 10 seconds for one of the scoops that was being used for the flavor they wanted. Instead they grabbed the scoop out of a nearby sorbet, scraped a good scoop of the ice cream, put a bit of it into their bowl, then dropped the scoop, still mostly full, right back into the sorbet and toodled off.)

[vvalkyri.livejournal.com]

I can beat that: I was watching someone use hir neck spoon to scoop.

Which brings up another discussion: when I was trying to get ice cream off of scoops I didn't really want to use my own spoon or my fingers, so by Sunday I'd started going for a second scoop from the water bowl to pull the ice cream off and onto my plate. I'd put the original scoop back in its ice cream and the second scoop back in the water bowl. It might be that I was going tsp sized samples and nobody else had this problem, but just wanted to put that out there as an option/problem

[surrealestate.livejournal.com]

I can beat that: I was watching someone use hir neck spoon to scoop.

That doesn't bother me very much to see since the entire weekend while mixing, people share the spoons, etc, of the leftovers that didn't fit into the container. And indeed, many fingers and spoons were used to get the ice cream out of the scoops. I don't really see any way of avoiding some level of (for lack of better term :) cooties in the ice cream process. I'd still rather a spoon that was wiped clean than a scoop full of something else.

(Okay, it could be avoided with many very small dishers, but that'd be a pretty expensive outlay.)

[koshmom.livejournal.com]

While it's a fine idea for dairy/non dairy tables to exist, mostly for the non-contamination issues, you don't want to go overboard with the idea. For example, if there's a nut/peanut allergy, you don't want a separate table for that. Or people who refuse / can't take alcohol in any form, or people with an allergy to citrus, or tree fruits such as apples, etc.

[vvalkyri.livejournal.com]

yeah, a lot of this came up a few years ago in tihs community, and that's where the improved labeling came from.

Label History

[(Anonymous)]

The ice cream labels stem from 2 things. Foremost was a desire to label the ice cream in a way that didn't fall off on the freezer, remember index cards and binder clips? Or tape? Second was to try to capture some of the most common food issues.

Over time, the labels have evolved. Generally, I've removed a lot of the big flag areas. They don't see much use, and they take up a lot of space. It's also hard to stop and read them during the rush.

Generally speaking, the community has a lot of diverse opinions, so these mostly come from what I think will work best, as influenced by what got used the past year.

--
seph

[forgotten-aria.livejournal.com]

I will mention the smurf ice cream showed that there was cross contamination between tables. It was mild, but present. It might be worse if people thought they were safe and then got a surprise. Though on the other hand, if no one is deathly allergic or if we were certain we could get a sufficent warning, then I think it's a great idea.

[whuffle.livejournal.com]

We talked of doing something similar with the savory flavors. I'm beginning to think that maybe the tables should be themed to make it easier for folk to gravitate toward the right area for their tastes. Yes, I know it's more work for the freezing team, but I'd be willing to pitch in to volunteer to keep that organized for them while freezing happens and I bet a lot of other interested parties would volunteer to do so as well.

[ceo]

I like that idea, though coming up with intuitive and consistent categories would be... an interesting exercise.

[aliothsan.livejournal.com]

Huh, I thought they already were themed and I just couldn't figure it out. I like the idea in theory, although I'm afraid it might make the "good" tables even more crowded than they already are.

[pekmez.livejournal.com]

Themes could be stuff like "sorbet", "fruit", "booze" and "nuts" and "chocolate" as well as "weird" and/or "savory", in which case I think it would be less clear which table was most "good" to who.

I'd also be willing to help volunteer. It would mostly require more thought when sticking a color and a column on a flavor, right? after that you still hvae the same ordered chao that is the running of the flavor, each quart has its table label right on it.

[dcseain.livejournal.com]

I'd be happy to help with such categorizing/labelling for the running - i think it's a great idea.

[surrealestate.livejournal.com]

This slippery slope is why (from what I've heard talking to ice cream crew over the years) there *hasn't* been segregation. Say, for example, there's a non-dairy fruity nutty chocolate flavor or the like. Which table does it go on?

Personally, I think the dairy/non-dairy split is an easy an obvious one that doesn't require any sort of judgment call (is this fruity/nutty/weird enough to be in that category?) and I think we should be careful going beyond that.

I'm also, however, fully in support of special separate tastings that don't happen during the Running of the Flavors, and those can be themed or not in all sorts of ways. But for the Running, I think any splits should be simple and clear.

[chenoameg.livejournal.com]

What she said.

[sodyera.livejournal.com]

I agree.

[cos]

I'm not sure what I think of going beyond dairy/nondairy. Other categories get much fuzzier (was Boston Tea Party "savory"? I'm sure some people think so and others think not - I think not) and there are so many more of them. And the few of them that actually intersect with anyone's real eating restrictions (religious or health related or whatever) tend to cover small numbers of flavors.

[vvalkyri.livejournal.com]

I'd been agitating for a 'savoury' tasting for a long while - opt-in, though. e.g. last year there were a few that were great on their own and awful next to more normally sweet flavors.

[dcseain.livejournal.com]

Yes, this!

[kimberlogic.livejournal.com]

Hey folks - I've asked the ice cream crew to take a look at all these comments. Maybe we can do what I and so many other attendees haven't been able to accomplish via comments at the con - I think a separate sorbet table (and savories table) would be a Very Good Thing

[solestria.livejournal.com]

Its being my idea (along with a number of other people's), I am, of course, all in favor of a dairy-free table.

I think if there are going to be separate savory or chocolate tables, then there need to be some sort of heirarchy. Does non-dairy always go on the non-dairy table regardless of whether the flavors are chocolate or savory? (I'll argue that they should, but whether they do or not, these are things to be thought of in advance.)

As someone who doesn't eat dairy, it's always lovely when I go to, for instance, a vegan restaurant where I can eat most of the things on the menu. It would be really nice for me, and for the other non-dairy-eaters, to have a non-dairy table where we know we can eat everything and just don't have to bother sorting through all the dairy flavors, and we could stay out of the way of the people who do eat dairy and make those tables slightly less frenetic. I also think it might cut down on some of the cross-contamination.

Though I'll say that, regardless: ice cream was fun! And I enjoyed my first Baitcon.